Narrator - Dr. Abel 00:00 Welcome to HelixTalk, an educational podcast for healthcare students and providers, covering real life clinical pearls, professional pharmacy topics and drug therapy discussions. This podcast is Narrator - ? 00:12 provided by pharmacists and faculty members at Rosalind Franklin University, College of Pharmacy. Narrator - Dr. Abel 00:17 This podcast contains general information for educational purposes only. This is not professional advice and should not be used in lieu of obtaining advice from a qualified health care provider. Narrator - ? 00:27 And now on to the show. Dr. Sean Kane 00:31 Welcome to HelixTalk episode 187 I'm your co host, Dr. Kane, and I'm Dr. Patel, and the title of today's episode is infectious ambitions, a pharmacist career pivot from clinical to industry. And in today's episode, I'm very excited to introduce Dr. Morgan Anderson, PharmD, BCIDP, who is actually an alumnus of our program and has a very interesting career path so far, since she graduated from our program in 2015 and as a fun fact, Dr. Anderson was actually literally the first person who matriculated into our pharmacy school back in 2011 which is a pretty cool claim to fame, in my opinion. Dr. Khyati Patel 01:07 Oh, I agree. I knew that she was, she was a graduate from the very first class, but I did not know that she was the first admitted. That makes you even more special. Dr. Anderson, Dr. Sean Kane 01:18 thank you. Dr. Anderson, why don't we start with your educational background. In terms of you know, you graduated from Rosalind Franklin University in 2015 Could you tell us about some of your career paths and where you're at right now? Speaker 1 01:30 Sure I'd be happy to I graduated, like you said, in the first class. So I graduated in 2015 and then I moved on to two years of pharmacy residency. So my first year was done at Abbott Northwestern, which is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And then I did a second year in infectious diseases at Northwestern Memorial through the Midwestern College of Pharmacy program. Those hospitals are not affiliated. They just have similar names. After that, I moved into a role as an emergency medicine pharmacist at Advocate Condell Medical Center, which is in Libertyville, Illinois, and then worked as an ID and antimicrobial stewardship pharmacist for a few years before switching into an industry role where I am now. Dr. Sean Kane 02:15 So you're currently a medical science liaison or MSL at a large pharmaceutical company. Can you tell us a little bit about that transition, and then anything you need to disclose about your current position and for the audience, just so that you know, we're not going to mention the specific company that Dr. Anderson works for, but it is a large pharmaceutical company. Speaker 1 02:33 Yeah, yes, exactly. So I transitioned to this role that I'm in now as an MSL, so it's a field based medical affairs role and starting my fourth year. So about three years ago, I took this on. So it's big career change for me. I will say, you know, from a disclaimer standpoint, that the views, thoughts and opinions that I expressed today are just my own. I'm not here in any formal capacity on behalf of the company I work for. So this is, this is all being done in a personal capacity, so I'm very happy to be here. Dr. Sean Kane 03:05 And for the audience, we're obviously going to be focusing on Dr. Anderson's current role as an MSL and kind of how she got to her current role. But it's worth mentioning that we've covered pharmacists within the pharmaceutical industry and career paths in previous HelixTalk episodes, for example, in Episode 130 we talked to Anastasiya Koshkina. At the time she was an associate director and clinical scientist at J and J, and we talked about the fellowship process and what students should be thinking about in terms of gearing up prior to joining a pharmaceutical company as a fellow, and then specifically what her role as a clinical scientist was within the pharmaceutical industry. Dr. Khyati Patel 03:42 And then we had Dr. Glassner come in, Scott Glassner from Pfizer, who talked about his career path and various positions in the industry, and the future of actually pharmacy industry in general. So we've had some great talk, and it's great to have Dr. Anderson here, you know, describing her career path, especially kind of broadening the discussion on the medical science liaison pathway. So, Dr Dr. Sean Kane 04:08 Anderson, you did share your CV with me ahead of time, and way back in 2011 to 2015 I thought it was interesting that you took on a variety of leadership roles as a student. Could you maybe share what some of those roles were and how they helped prepare you for your future career, particularly as it relates to your current position as an MSL in pharmaceutical industry position. Speaker 1 04:29 I definitely think leadership roles help provide that foundational skill set that translate well into an industry profession. So my personal leadership experiences, whether it be on like the school academic affairs. So I was vice president of our class Academic Affairs. I was a student dean at one point, as well as holding some leadership positions within student led organizations. And so I think having a diversity of leadership experience can be really. Valuable and preparing you for a role in industry. Specifically, you know, the ability to manage a project working on a diverse team. So at Rosalind Franklin, we worked in interprofessional teams, so learning how to work and communicate with those that are coming from different skill sets and backgrounds from yourself, and then that communication piece. So I think, you know, having strong communication skills is another great aspect of participating in leadership roles as a student, and I Dr. Khyati Patel 05:31 think this signifies that you were also very self directed leader. I'm sure that key characteristic translate very well into your current role, Speaker 1 05:42 I like to think of myself as self motivated. I I'm sure my upbringing had a lot to do with that, and I have to give my maybe give my parents some credit and some capacity for that, but I think that being self directed and looking for opportunities that help you grow and develop, and areas that are in focus for you is really important, and that work can start as a student. Dr. Sean Kane 06:09 So Dr. Anderson, as you know, we were at Advocate Condell Medical Center at the same time, same hospital. So going back in time a little bit, you'd completed two years of residency. You specialized in infectious diseases, but then you took an emergency medicine position at Advocate Condell at that hospital. Can you talk a bit about what were some motivators to take that particular position versus moving forward with an infectious diseases position? Speaker 1 06:34 Yes, so you're exactly right. My passion and focus has always been infectious diseases, but it's an incredibly competitive arena. And I live and work in the Greater Chicagoland area, which is a very saturated area for pharmacists, particularly infectious disease pharmacists. So when finishing my second year of residency, I needed to look for other opportunities where I could apply other skill sets while I waited for the best fit for me in an ID position, I think that's you know. Something to note is making sure that you know during your training, whether it be residency or applying to other jobs, making sure that you're making yourself marketable, that you have a wide breadth of skills, so that you have that adaptability. So I really enjoy critical care and emergency medicine. So I was very happy to have that opportunity and work on those soft skills in a different environment, and then I transitioned into an infectious disease role when one became available. That was a good fit for me and my goals. Dr. Sean Kane 07:36 Dr. Anderson, one thing I love about your story, and I talk to students about this all the time, is that the PharmD degree is literally so versatile, as we saw in your story, you can potentially switch between specialties within pharmacy, but also that degree allows you to literally switch industries as well. So in your case, going from clinical to pharmaceutical industry. And we see this all the time, where five years after graduation, people change their mind about what they want to do, and the PharmD degree allows them to make that switch into a different career path that maybe they hadn't thought about at the time that they were a student or when they took their first job upon graduation. Speaker 1 08:12 Yes, absolutely. I think pharmacists have a unique type of job security. There's so many different roles we can take on that we're prepared for based on our doctorate training. Dr. Khyati Patel 08:23 So would you say your transition based on your obviously, you know PGY1, PGY2 experiences and your natural affinity towards ID, that the transition to your ID position from ED was very easy? Did you miss emergency medicine? I think Speaker 1 08:41 I definitely missed some aspects of it in terms of, you know, there's such wonderful dynamic teams and teamwork and an emergency medicine department, and there's a lot of opportunities to grow your pharmacy skills in seeing different cases or traumas come in. I did continue to seek out ID opportunities within the role that I had and support the infectious disease components of the Emergency Medicine Department. I also use that time to work on committees and support quality committees and expand my experiences on those other healthcare related committees during that year. Dr. Sean Kane 09:19 So Dr. Anderson, when you did transition to that Id role, can you give the audience a little context about anything notable that was occurring at the time when you took that position as an ID pharmacist for that three year period that maybe the audience might be familiar with? Speaker 1 09:35 Well, the elephant in the room for many years was the covid 19 pandemic. I transitioned into the ID position at Advocate Health in 2018 and then certainly within two years, we were dealing with a global pandemic. And so I spent two years, so the first two years of the pandemic, I was a practicing Infectious Diseases Clinical Pharmacy specialist. And. And that definitely impacted what I was working on and my experience in that role. Dr. Sean Kane 10:07 Before we start talking about your role as an MSL, maybe you could give us a clinical vignette or a patient case, or anything that you remember from your time as an ED pharmacist or an ID pharmacist that really impacted you in terms of an interesting case or scenario, or something that just stood out to you as a time where you really had a big impact on patient care. Speaker 1 10:27 I think the emergency medicine department or working as a pharmacist in that environment is very unique, because you actually see your impact immediately play out. And so there are a number of cases where I was working on this wonderful, wonderful team, and I was able to be a contributing participant, whether it be a code or like a level one trauma that came in. I certainly learned what not to do in terms of mixing alcohol with fireworks. For example, there's a lot of scenarios that come into the emergency department, where you learn from it personally, but I think professionally, you know, participating in that, in that team, and gaining that confidence. So having trusting yourself, trusting your knowledge and your training was a was a big takeaway for me from that, I think certainly from an ID perspective, going through the first two years of the pandemic definitely shaped my shaped my clinical career, particularly when I think about the impact it had, it had on how we use evidence based medicine. So it was a data free zone for a period of time, so having to really critically evaluate evidence that was coming through and working together with other experts in the field to determine how we were going to handle cases in our health system, was a really high pressure, but satisfying and rewarding experience, because we were able to contribute in a very meaningful way. Dr. Khyati Patel 11:57 I'm sure it was really hard to find a lot of data back then for COVID‑19 treatment at the time, right? Dr. Anderson, don't get me started. So you know, you left clinical practice and you decided to pursue the industry career. What were your consideration factors whether to stay in clinical practice versus moving on to this completely new path. Speaker 1 12:24 I always knew I wanted to do infectious diseases, and then I I always had industry in the back of my mind as something that I would eventually do right and conquer and and explore, but I didn't know a lot about it, especially as a student in pharmacy school, I did feel that it was a way for me to have a broader impact. So things that I'm personally passionate about, what drives me and my role are prevention of infectious diseases and impacting public health. And so this was a way for me to have a broader impact on those areas and and shape healthcare on a systemic level that would benefit more patients than the day to day that I was doing in the hospital. I also loved the idea of better work life balance. So personally, I've experienced better balance, even in light of the travel that's involved in the role and having that flexibility of, you know, shaping my schedule is very different. It's sort of a culture shock, honestly, compared to working in a healthcare system, Dr. Sean Kane 13:22 were there any factors that were hard to leave behind? Speaker 1 13:25 I've told some people this before. You know, when I've spoken to aspiring MSLs, I think one of the hardest things to transition in your mind from a clinical pharmacist to working in a field role in Medical Affairs is that you have to let the data, the data will speak for itself. So you're having, you know, fair, unbiased, balanced, scientific exchange with experts in the field, and your opinion is no longer of relevance. So it's very different from a environment on rounds, where a provider will say, what do we do? What is the dose? How often do we give it? And you have to have an answer, and you have to have evidence to support it. This is very different. We're providing the evidence and having that scientific exchange, and that expert will take that evidence forward and make decisions with that information. Dr. Sean Kane 14:18 So then at that point, you had made the decision to go along with this new career path as an MSL, can you share with us what that looked like? Was it a long process? Did you apply to a variety of different companies? Give us a little bit more on the chronology of your application process prior to actually getting hired as an MSL, Speaker 1 14:38 for me personally, it took about six months to find the right fit for me. But I have heard from mentors that it can take up to a year, 18 months, to find a good fit in industry once you start applying. So definitely don't give up. Be tenacious and and don't be disheartened, because it is a long process. Sometimes I specifically apply. Apply to opportunities within the infectious diseases or diagnostic space. So vaccines and Id diagnostics were my areas of focus on my applications. Dr. Khyati Patel 15:12 So Dr. Anderson, I've seen industry career pharmacists kind of come about two different ways. Either they do their clinical training – PGY1, PGY2, some years in clinical practice – and then join industry like yourself, or some students go directly from pharmacy school into an industry fellowship. And then, you know, develop their industry career. Is one approach better than the other? If you were to talk to current P3/P4 students, what advice would you give? Speaker 1 15:42 That's a great question. The advice that I would give, or I guess, the information that I would give somebody as they're trying to determine what path they're going to take, is that a fellowship opportunity, whether it's one or two years, is a is a structured way into an industry professional role the the fellowship may provide you with more access to the business side of a company. So outside of medical affairs, for example, there may be rotations or exposure to other aspects of the business. There's also a huge component of mentoring and networking within a fellowship. And those are things that you may not have if you take the path that I did, which was the clinical pathway. That's one of the main things that I would describe when I think about the differences, is just that lack of structure when you take the path that I took. So I was a much more self directed path, which seems to be on brand for me. So I think a clinical path. You know, as a clinical pharmacist, you have so much experience that you can leverage when applying to industry roles, and I think that can be a big pro. Dr. Sean Kane 16:52 I think that most pharmacists are aware that pharmacists work in pharmaceutical industry companies, but maybe they're less familiar with the types of jobs that are out there. So they may be familiar with the role of a medical science liaison or MSL, but maybe don't know what that entails. Then also maybe what some of the non MSL roles for pharmacists are. So maybe you can clarify that a little bit for the audience. Absolutely. Speaker 1 17:16 So I think MSLs are the most commonly known role in industry for pharmacists, it was certainly the only job I knew about as a student when I thought about an industry role. And so an MSL, or medical science liaison. MSL is the most commonly used term for that role, but it may vary company to company. So you may hear a field Medical Director be the term used for example. But these roles exist in medical affairs, so it's a certain a certain part of the company, and they're field based roles. So I live in Chicago, and I work in a territory. My role is to be a medical and scientific expert. So I'm responsible for building collaborative relationships with healthcare and scientific professionals in my territory that I cover. So I facilitate, like I mentioned earlier, that unbiased scientific exchange of information. I think of myself as a conduit. I'm sharing updated data and evidence externally with stakeholders, but I'm also bringing insights back to the company to help inform the company as they make decisions. And so it's a two way street, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship that I try to develop with these stakeholders. I also support other capabilities, like clinical trials or attending conferences to support the company. Dr. Sean Kane 18:41 Now, what are some of the other roles besides medical affairs that a pharmacist might be involved in within industry? Speaker 1 18:47 So even within medical affairs, you'll have medical writing, medical information, lots of areas where pharmacists can contribute. Outside of medical affairs, there's Regulatory Affairs, clinical development, pharmacovigilance, market access, marketing in general, and then health economics and outcomes research, those are some areas that come to mind, and pharmacists can thrive in all of these environments. Dr. Khyati Patel 19:15 So, Dr. Anderson, you said that you are a field based MSL, kind of expanding a little bit on your role. You know, this was a clinical role to industry role transition. What challenges did you face in the first few months when you kind of took upon this role? Speaker 1 19:31 So there's definitely that culture shock of going from working in a hospital to working in a corporate environment. It's just very different. And there's new workflows. There's, you know, instead of interprofessional communication, it's a cross functional dynamics and working on, you know, still a lot of different teams, but learning how to communicate with people from other expertise, like marketing or commercial for example. Role, and then also just learning to manage and prioritize within the territory that I cover. So there's a lot of autonomy in a role like this. And I felt that hospital based pharmacy was very methodical in the way that we functioned. And this is more strategic, so less method, more strategy. Dr. Sean Kane 20:21 Love that. So certainly one, if not the most important thing that you're doing is interfacing with experts, thought leaders, things like that, which means that you either have to physically be there or kind of connect up with them. I know that in terms of how you do that may differ you versus someone else in an MSL role at some other company. But can you give some sense of like for an MSL, how common is it that they're physically traveling versus zoom, conferencing versus going to corporate meetings, in terms of where they physically are, who or how they're communicating with other people in their space or in their territory? Speaker 1 20:56 I think it is hard to generalize, right? So it will vary so much between company or even between business units within the same company. In general, though, I can be confident saying that an MSL would need to attend some conferences and some internal meetings each year in terms of their day to day and speaking with their stakeholders out in the field that can be virtual or in person. Some teams may have metrics around this. So there may be expectations set around how many meetings they're having in person over a set period of time, or there may not be metrics like that. So in the focus may be more on impact. And you know, it doesn't matter how you're meeting with them, but the important thing is that there's impact in that information is, is those conversations are happening, right? So I do think there's a lot of variability. Prior to the pandemic, travel was definitely higher in this role. So I don't know if I could have done it, to be honest, in terms of that work life balance, I think a key piece of that was the change that was seen in the pandemic with a more focus on virtual and less on in person. But it's definitely a mix. Dr. Khyati Patel 22:07 And when it kind of comes to the perceptions about this particular role of MSL, what are some of the biggest misconceptions among the pharmacy community? What does an MSL do? I think the Speaker 1 22:19 biggest misconception is that MSLs are just sales, like a glorified salesperson. I mean, certainly I work for a company that sells products, but the role is not about promoting products, but rather fostering meaningful two‑way scientific exchange. So pharmacists have a lot of clinical expertise that they're bringing to the table, and they're well suited to this role, because we can bridge that gap between the research and the real‑world application of that in clinical practice. Dr. Sean Kane 22:50 Dr. Anderson, earlier, you talked about soft skills like leadership and just having confidence for someone interested in an MSL role. What are some of those soft skills or things that someone can work on if they're very interested in pursuing an MSL position in the future, and they want to make sure that those soft skills are on point when they eventually get that job opportunity. Speaker 1 23:11 In terms of soft skills, I definitely think strong communication skills would be the number one area of focus for someone trying to develop into a role like this, you have to translate the complex information into a way that can be understood and applied out in practice. And so being a scientific communicator, which is a phrase that you may see used these days, is a very that communication piece is so important in order to be impactful, I think other ones would be emotional intelligence. So you know, when you build relationships with stakeholders in the field, it's important that they're authentic and trusted relationships, and so having that emotional intelligence is also important, and then being adaptable, because this is a very dynamic space, and your priorities may change, your projects may change, and you need to be able to adapt and be agile in the environment. Dr. Sean Kane 24:10 Is there anything as a student or a resident or even a clinician that you did to help improve some of your soft skills that you just mentioned? Speaker 1 24:18 I think seeking safe spaces to practice those things was, was definitely something that I did. So looking for those leadership opportunities or organizations where I could participate and and practice these soft skills was something that I was intentional about as a as a student. So working in a community clinic, for example, and working with patients directly during rotations or during clinic time as a student, definitely all played a role in me developing those skills. Dr. Khyati Patel 24:57 So I believe Dr. Anderson, you said you've been in this. Role for about three years, you've gotten a breadth of experience in your role so far. What has been the most rewarding part, or, you know, experience of your career so far, and what are you kind of looking forward to in the future if you continue this path? Speaker 1 25:17 I think sometimes people forget, even pharmacists forget how long it takes for a drug or a vaccine to go from conception to regulatory approval and there. So it's a it's a large number of years, and there are a number of years before regulatory approval or launch of a product that medical affairs is working working on that launch. And so it's very satisfying to see something finally become available to patients and to have positive impact on individuals as well as a population level. So I definitely have found that to be really rewarding. I think personally, if I just think of like my personal professional situation, I am most excited for opportunities for growth. So it I've heard from people that it takes about three years to learn how to be an MSL, and so now I'm in my fourth year, so I feel like I have a bit of a better handle on it, although there's always new challenges, but it's giving me this opportunity to, you know, look for additional growth and improvement areas. So I'm excited for for those things. Dr. Sean Kane 26:27 I actually think that's a really good segue to my next question, which is thinking about career growth, or the career ladder. You know, for pharmacists, I think we commonly think about like a level one, level two clinical pharmacist, or even in academia, we think about assistant professor, associate professor, full professor. What does it look like in industry, in terms of a career ladder, or from a promotion standpoint, what someone can look forward to if they end up sticking with a position as an MSL, for example? What does that look like 510, years down the road? Speaker 1 27:01 Certainly, you'll see variability between companies, right? But in general, with an MSL role, there will be some aspect of a ladder, so perhaps starting as an MSL promotion to a senior level MSL, or even an executive level MSL. But I like to think of it less of a ladder and more of a matrix when you think about careers within industry for pharmacists or other advanced, Advanced Practice folks. So there's different types of positions, like we've talked about, you know, medical affairs and those other areas of the company where pharmacists can work. But there's also different characteristics of those roles. So there may be field based roles versus office based roles. You could work on the US team, or, depending on the size of the company, could work at a global level. You could be a people manager or an individual contributor. So there's lots of different characteristics that define these roles, and it's more of a matrix where you'll see this movement between the ladders almost, and that's becoming the norm. Dr. Khyati Patel 28:06 I love the word matrix because it tells you you're not just talking about vertical growth, but maybe even there's some horizontal growth possibilities here too, right? So it's, it's, it's actually refreshing to hear that we heard the Word Ladder all the time, but there was multiple opportunities. I think. In a nutshell, it's what you're trying to say when you are in the industry. Unknown Speaker 28:27 Yeah, I think it's more exciting this way. Dr. Sean Kane 28:30 Dr. Anderson, one thing I'm really passionate about is AI and how AI is being integrated into a variety of different areas, pharmacy, education and even clinical practice. Can you talk a little bit about how AI is currently being integrated into industry, pharmaceutical industry? What are typical use cases, and what are you kind of seeing with the future of AI? Speaker 1 28:51 Use AI is definitely a hot topic right now, particularly an industry, I think, within the medical affairs role, some of the use cases that I think about would be summarizing those insights. So when I talk about that two way conduit of information, using AI to summarize insights being brought in from the field or from office based medical colleagues, working stakeholders out in the field, AI can also be used to support those medical information requests. So part of my role is to answer questions. I would be the contact for my territory that I cover for medical questions, and so AI can be used to support that process, as well as content personalization. So providing updates to providers in the field, you can personalize that content based on their needs and requests using AI. Dr. Sean Kane 29:48 Dr. Anderson, from an academia perspective, in terms of pharmacy education, we obviously want to prepare our graduates to be ready for a future career path where they're using AI. Do you think there's anything that we should. Build into our curricula to make sure that students are adequately prepared when they get to that position. That is using AI as an extender of whatever job responsibilities that they have so that they can hit the ground running. Speaker 1 30:13 I think a basic understanding or competency is important. I think of it as how we took typing classes in school. I'm going to age us all right now, but we took typing classes in grade school, right? And so it's one of those things that's eventually going to become ubiquitous, and it's something that I that I think students need to be prepared for, because it's going to come up in a lot of professional environments, both in the healthcare space, but also in the industry space. Dr. Khyati Patel 30:45 Well, it's been wonderful to learn about your career path and different options within the industry, as well as the career matrix and opportunities of AI. As we are nearing the end of the episode, we want to hear if you have any parting wisdom for any students considering, you know, future career options in industry, or even some pharmacist you know, who wants to jump from clinical to industry, what advice or wisdom do you have to share Speaker 1 31:14 a few? I have a few pearls of wisdom that I think I can share. I think when looking for roles, you want to make sure that you're applying for positions where you can grow into them. So if you meet every criteria and you have experience in every job responsibility listed, then you're probably overqualified and and that may not be a good fit for you, because there's not going to be a lot of opportunity for growth within the role. So don't be afraid to apply for things where you're going to have to grow to succeed in the role. So that's one of my my pearls that I like to share. I also think within the industry space, one of the best things you can do when looking at jobs is look at that company's pipeline. So even a diagnostic company is going to have a pipeline or list of their research and development focus areas. So look at look at the pipeline, look at what they're working on, because that's what you're going to be working on for years to come. And if that doesn't align with your interests, and it's not going to be a good fit, and that's also a great way to prepare for interviews. So you want to be able to go into an interview and have knowledge of what they're working on, because it shows that you're interested not just in industry or medical affairs, but you're actually interested in this company and this job. So that last pearl that I would share is be able to answer that question satisfactorily in an interview. Why do you want this job, on this team, doing this work? And you don't want to give a vague answer about why you like medical affairs or industry. You want to be able to answer that in detail, because that will set you apart. Dr. Sean Kane 32:47 Dr. Anderson, I just want to highlight what you mentioned in terms of your first Pearl, that you want to have room for growth in that position that you're applying for. I think especially because of imposter syndrome, it's very common for people to not put themselves out there. Maybe they're not fully qualified for a position and they don't apply for it because they don't think that they would be given that opportunity. But again, to your point, this is an area of growth opportunity for someone, and if you don't apply, you're never going to be able to have that growth opportunity. I think it's better to apply and be rejected than to not apply at all. I think that's really key point that I hope the audience really takes to heart. Speaker 1 33:25 Yes, exactly. And a lot of these, a lot of these soft skills and things that we've talked about are like teachable, you can practice, and practice makes better, and don't limit yourself based on your personal assessment of of your skills. Dr. Sean Kane 33:40 Dr. Anderson, thinking about some of those soft skills you already mentioned, communication in terms of how important that is. What are some other soft skills that you think are notable or you want to highlight that are important, especially for that MSL role that you're currently in? Speaker 1 33:55 Sure, I know I talked about communication, like you said, I a lot of there's a lot of nuance to that too. So I think good follow up info would be that a lot of your time is going to be spent speaking with experts out in the field. So you know, based on the disease area that you're focusing on, you'll be speaking with persons of high esteem. They're at the top of their field, you want to approach these relationships by being personable, being confident, but humble, and being authentic. And I think that's really important for success in this role. I also think, you know, we think about communication. Maybe that sounds like we're focusing on one on one discussions, but there's a big aspect of industry that involves presentations, right? So presentation skills are frequently a part of the interview process where an applicant will have to give a presentation. I think having an executive presence and being confident in those presentations is extremely important. Some of the best feedback I get after i. Present to a group is that I seem like a natural presenter, which is false. I have worked very hard on that skill that is not a natural space for me to be in. So it's okay to be an introvert. I am an introvert by nature. So these roles are not limited to extroverts. So all my introvert friends, do not be afraid. You can do it, and you you can succeed too. Dr. Khyati Patel 35:27 And going back to the students again, you know, they're always, I work with students on professional development front in the curriculum, and they're always worried about how competitive industry jobs are if they're going directly from school or, you know, after a few years of clinical experience, what do you think the students can do to make themselves more competitive for this applications or opportunities in the industry? Speaker 1 35:53 You know, we've talked about how there's lots of pathways to this role and to industry as a as a professional career, I think as a student, or, you know, a young professional, I would focus on building skills or experience in an area you're passionate about and that will make you stand out. So whether that be work in the clinical space, in our outpatient environment, or research or leadership opportunities, so within an association or within your school, those are all really great areas to focus on and help yourself stand out as an applicant when you're considering a move into an industry role, there's lots of resources that you can consider. There's a great medical affairs community on LinkedIn. There is a professional organization called industry pharmacists organization or and those are all great resources to use when determining if this is the right fit for you. Dr. Sean Kane 36:51 So we'll put a link to industry pharmacist.org on the show notes for HelixTalk, for anyone interested in kind of seeing more about IPH O and what they offer. It's a really great resource. And there's so much in there for people who want to know more about the space Dr. Anderson. One, I really appreciate your time. But then two, to kind of wrap things up, kind of piggybacking off of Dr. Patel's question of you know, students that are listening, what should they be thinking about? What about people like you, people who were practicing pharmacists for a handful of years, and they're thinking, you know, maybe I want to try something different. And what can those people do where they're practicing clinically now, but they want to, maybe in a year or two, think about transitioning to the industry space. What are things that they can think about right now to be better qualified or to hit the ground running if they were to make that move. Speaker 1 37:43 Networking strategically is a great place to start. So participating in professional organizations in your therapeutic area of interest, attending conferences, you can meet industry professionals in your field of interest. You also can pursue certifications or training skills that will set you apart. So I personally chose to pursue a board certification in ID pharmacotherapy, and so that's something that can set you apart from other applicants, and then staying informed on industry trends. So you know, following developments on innovations in the space of interest for you, following public health and regulatory changes that may be occurring, those things can all help you access opportunity, but also be better prepared for interviews. Dr. Sean Kane 38:32 Well, Dr. Anderson, we are just about out of time again. I want to thank you for your time and your expertise. For the listeners, this is HelixTalk, Episode 187 so if you go to HelixTalk.com you can see Show Notes and references to today's episode, including the ipho website. Also for the listener, we have a mailing list. You can sign up at our website, HelixTalk.com we love the five star reviews and Apple podcasts, or however you're listening to us. So keep those coming. We really appreciate it. Thank you, and it was great to see both of you. Unknown Speaker 39:01 Thank you. It's great to see you both. Dr. Khyati Patel 39:03 Thanks to have you. Dr. Anderson, it sort of like I'm looking at the year mark here, and it's like a 10 year commemoration of your graduation, right? And living that that career cycle. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Great. Well, with that, I'm Dr. Kane, and I'm Dr. Patel, and as always, study hard. Narrator - Dr. Abel 39:23 If you enjoyed the show, please help us climb the iTunes rankings for medical podcasts by giving us a five star review in the iTunes Store. Search for HelixTalk and place your review there Narrator - ? 39:34 to suggest an episode or contact us. We're online at HelixTalk.com thank you for listening to this episode of HelixTalk. This is an educational production copyright Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science.