Narrator - Dr. Abel  00:00
Welcome to HelixTalk, an educational podcast for healthcare students and providers, covering real life clinical pearls, professional pharmacy topics and drug therapy discussions.

Narrator - ?  00:11
This podcast is provided by pharmacists and faculty members at Rosalind Franklin University, College of Pharmacy.

Narrator - Dr. Abel  00:17
This podcast contains general information for educational purposes only. This is not professional advice, and should not be used in lieu of obtaining advice from a qualified health care provider.

Narrator - ?  00:27
And now on to the show.

Dr. Sean Kane  00:31
Welcome to HelixTalk episode 174 I'm your co host, Dr. Kane, and I'm Dr. Patel, and the title of today's episode is finding your Mount Rushmore, the journey of an industry pharmacist. Today, we're interviewing Dr. Scott Glosner, and just as a quick disclaimer, he is an employee of Pfizer, and that his views expressed by him may not represent the views of Pfizer. Now with that out of the way, Dr. Glosner, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Today, I'm going to let you kind of tell the audience a little bit about yourself, and then we'll kind of dive into some questions. Some questions about why you're here and what our topic is today. Great.

Speaker 1  01:06
Thanks again. Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you both. So I am Scott Glosner. I'm originally from the Pennsylvania area, Pittsburgh area. I went to undergraduate pharmacy school at Purdue, got my PharmD at University of Texas, and did a residency there in ambulatory care, and then I practiced at Parkland Hospital, which is a large county hospital in the Dallas area. And then I transitioned over to the Dallas VA and worked at UTMB, so the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston for short period of time, Cleveland VA, and then I transitioned over to the current company I work for now, which is Pfizer Inc. I started in the Philadelphia area. And my role there is a clinical education consultant, would be education and outcomes projects. And my current position is a field medical therapeutic area person and in the cardiovascular area. And I work similarly with education as well as research in the Chicagoland area.

Dr. Sean Kane  01:58
So Dr. Glosner, I want to step back just a little bit, you went through your background very well. One thing that really stood out to me about you is kind of the timeline of your time spent in industry. So if we rewind the clock a little bit, could you give us a sense of dates in terms of when you did your PharmD, why you did your PharmD at the time, it was fairly uncommon, and then when you started at Pfizer?

Speaker 1  02:20
Yep, you know. Thanks. Yeah. For me, I was, I had an uncle that was a pharmacist, so I went to pharmacy school with the thought of becoming a pharmacist, and that was a BS at the time. So that was 1989 when I graduated. And then through mentorship, Dr. Steve Scott, who's at Purdue now, I have my Mount Rushmore of people that have influenced my life, and so he's one of those individuals encouraged me to look at residency or PharmD school. So I actually attended a SHP in Dallas with the PharmD students, truly looking for residency. And while I was there, I decided to interview for PharmD School, which was the University of Texas. So I was there in 1989 through 92 my interests were ambulatory care, I like the opportunity my preceptor, which was built in, is a big physical assessment person, which I'm a big fan of, and just the opportunity to kind of get as much information about patients. And so that was where I got my education, my pharmacy, University of Texas, as well as my residency in ambulatory care through the VA system in San Antonio, the county hospital, which is Bexar County, that's connected by a walkway to the Audie Murphy VA hospital. So you have two populations that you're able to work with in that space. And truly, I became an adult pharmacist. Purdue was fantastic for a foundation for me, but through PharmD school, it was like you're going to codes. You're doing all these things that I wasn't necessarily exposed to when I was getting my BS, and then I worked different places, and I really looked at industry as a way for me to look at healthcare through a lot of different continuums. It wasn't just the VA setting. I got to see academic centers and medical groups and long term care and colleges of pharmacy. So it gave me a little more breadth of what healthcare is.

Dr. Khyati Patel  04:04
Yeah, and Dr. Glosner, we kind of have a connection here, VA connection. And you mentioned ambulatory care (amcare), which is what I practice in, as well. So you said a lot of your clinical pharmacists time was at the Texas VA can you give the audience an overview of you kind of mentioned the different areas that you just worked in in the VA system? VA system, but as an ambulatory care pharmacist, probably that field was also evolving, you know, along with you, what was your role day to day? And you know, what kind of practice did you do?

Speaker 1  04:33
Yep. So historically, at the Audie Murphy VA hospital, Bill Lynn started an anticoagulation clinic, so blood thinner clinic based off of adverse events that happened in a couple patients. Patients were getting their blood thinner four times a day, a QD, which was daily, was taken as QID, so they had some adverse events created this anticoagulation clinic. So that's what we did, four days of the week, four half days a week. And then we had a special clinic that was heart failure based hypertension based on Friday. So basically, patients would come in, and this is the olden days. This is actually around prothrombin time, the transition to the INR that we have now. And patients would get their blood drawn at eight in the morning, and you would see them in clinic at noon or one, until it took that long for the values to come about. And so we would manage those patients appropriately. The nice thing with the VA, and it varies from station to station, is the credentialing that providers have the ability to write most any prescription. I think we're limited by controls. We could not do but you could order many of the labs as well. So from a follow up standpoint, it wasn't something that you needed a co signature from attending that pharmacist in the VA setting have that autonomy to kind of manage patients. And so anti COAG hypertension were two of the big areas. When I transitioned to the Dallas VA picked up lipids as well as hypertension and renal disease. And for me, being a child of a cardiovascular nurse, that was my area of interest. And so working with Norm Kaplan, who's the father of blood pressure, was someone I worked with Scott Grundy and lipids. It was a great opportunity for me.

Dr. Sean Kane  06:06
And I just want to highlight, at the time, in the mid 1990s it was not that common to have ambulatory care pharmacists working in this kind of a scenario compared to today, at least. You know, the VA really was one of the leaders in this area of am care pharmacists having their own clinics with these lipid, diabetes, hypertension, type areas, this was kind of a big deal at the time, right?

Speaker 1  06:27
Yeah, agreed. And so for me, coming from San Antonio, where there were it was well accepted, because that's where the PharmD school was to go to Dallas and parkland. It was why you guys on the floor, aren't you guys in the pharmacy. So there was that piece, and then we were in competition with other anticoagulation clinics, some run by nurses. So there's that concern of competition, if this guy's going to replace me, I'm like, No, we're here to work together as a team. And it started almost as a refill clinic at Parkland, and then it transitioned to some of these other areas at Parkland, they have community oriented primary care clinics based on the density of a zip code. And so they created clinics. And so I would go out to those clinics and work with those providers, which was fantastic. You had a little more autonomy a transition over to the Dallas VA. And again, it wasn't as common, but the acceptance by the providers there was great, especially for clinical pharmacists. And so they're like, come on in and do what you will. We're happy to help you. And the veterans are fantastic to work with, and so for me, it's something I miss a little bit, is the opportunity to work in that patient population because of the acceptance that I was able to have.

Dr. Sean Kane  07:31
I will say that in today's era of pharmacy, we take it for granted that we have these clinical positions. We don't have to necessarily justify our role on the team in the ICU setting. It's the same way. You know, 2030, years ago, pharmacists in the ICU were collecting ADR data, cost data, to basically prove their worth in the ICU. And I'm very fortunate that now I don't have to do that, because that work has already been done and my salary has been justified many times over in literature and things like that. So it's really neat that we can kind of see how pharmacies evolved since, you know, the 1990s

Speaker 1  08:06
Yeah, and we would do that as well. Rick Weidemann, who was a PharmD at the Dallas VA, created this software called okie, and it was a way to cost justify what you did. So if you saw a person that was on two ACE inhibitors and you stopped one, you would annualize it out to a year and say, this is potentially how much money I saved, just with a way to justify, because you never knew, and I still would encourage pharmacists to this day of it doesn't hurt to gather some of those pieces just to say this is the value that I bring, even at be able to paint a picture of a story of this person avoided a hospital admission or an ER, whatever

Dr. Khyati Patel  08:36
that might be. Dr. Glosner, you were breaking barriers at that time. You know we were talking 1990s but then in 1996 you change directions, and you went from being a Clinical Pharmacist at a VA to industry. You mentioned a few mentors you've had throughout the time, aside from them who, what was your drive? What was your precipitous and joining industry, yep.

Speaker 1  09:03
So it's interesting. I was at University of Texas Medical Branch and a Pfizer educator, Dr. Bob sekora, was doing an evening program, and I got a business card of his, went to the Cleveland VA seven, eight years, didn't think of it. And then I heard their group was expanding, and I reached out. So it's that twofold. It's that networking, like you never know where it's going to happen. So it's always good to connect with people wherever that might be. And then he's another person that's out on my Mount Rushmore of people that influence my lives. From the standpoint of his line that he uses, you are a pharmacist first, you're an employee of company ABC, second, you know. So you're a pharmacist, first healthcare provider, first, you're a Pfizer employee second. So that Northern Light of you have to do what's best for patients, wherever you are. And I think that's challenging. You hear the challenges in retail pharmacy of doing the immunizations, multiple scripts that sometimes are being pulled away from the ability to help patients to some extent. And. And that's why I became a pharmacist, is to help patients. And so he, again, influenced me when I interviewed for the position Philadelphia was open, and that's where I started with Pfizer in the Philadelphia area. And again, that small network, a classmate of mine that was a year ahead of me, was at one of the hospitals in Philadelphia, and we did a journal club with other clinical pharmacists, and we would kind of connect from that standpoint. So you just never know. You never so in 96 I was looking for a change, and the group was expanding.

Dr. Sean Kane  10:32
So it worked out so kind of expanding on that clearly you had a mentor that really drove some of that desire to change. What were some other big factors that were pros in terms of making that jump from career setting a to career setting B.

Speaker 1  10:45
Sure, it's a great question. And reflecting on it, I don't know, to be honest, why I made the jump. I think it was an opportunity. Was one at the time. The VA is a somewhat set structure, eight to 430 and so that made it difficult. If you stayed late, worked till eight, and you're coming in 810, the next morning is kind of why you're coming in late. So that rigidity was a little bit of a challenging it was one patient population. So I just basically picked up and moved, I was single, to Philadelphia, and kind of evolved. There were 20 people in our group, and I remember the first meeting we had. Meeting we had was in San Diego, and they worked on how to do a presentation that wasn't a strength of mine. In high school, I did a presentation. I rocked back and forth so much that the teacher taped my feet to the ground, and I knew that it was a challenge. When I went to Purdue for my BS, I joined a Toastmasters group to become a better speaker to some extent. And then here the company, or that, the group I'm starting with, that was their first day, was how to become a better speaker. And so I think that's important for us as pharmacists, is how to become a good communicator, whether it's written or orally.

Dr. Khyati Patel  11:54
Yeah, I think that's a that's a good point. I mean, a lot that we do here in our skills curriculum, too, is, you know, teach students how to communicate, and not just with patient, also with health providers. You know, talking about industry, and our listeners, and most of them are students, when we think about industry, pharmacists, we always think about MSL clinical science liaison. When you joined in 1996 you were on the clinical education and medical outcomes team. So can you explain the audience as to what you did as part of part of that team and that role?

Speaker 1  12:27
Certainly, so it was created by David Day. David had worked with a representative in Alabama, and David was a visionary, from the standpoint of he created software that allowed us to look at the overall cost of healthcare. And so the role that I had within Pfizer at that time was education, and it wasn't just disease or drug, it was skill development. We did health behavior change or motivational interviewing. We did older adult sensitivity training, how to have providers connect better with older patients or difficult patients. But the other differentiator that I don't know if other companies have this is they call them outcomes projects or hopes. So you would actually go in and this was HIPAA compliantly, or this was actually before HIPAA, and you would review charts. I remember the first one I did was a Unison project looking at appropriate indications and duration for this antibiotic at a hospital in Philadelphia. And then you would give the reports back to that system, and then they would make decisions. From that standpoint, as a clinical pharmacist, the bandwidth is difficult to do some of these projects, and so having another person come in and kind of help navigate that, through that, and in this day, it's transitioned to where that group is actually utilizing red caps and collecting those data online, and then helping aggregate that and analyze that for providers. And so it gives them some information as well as an opportunity to possibly publish do that as an abstracted as HP or ACCP, to kind of get it out the public forum as well. And so that's with that group, and they still, to some extent do those similar projects. Now, de identified HIPAA compliant outcomes, projects to help systems from a decision standpoint.

Dr. Sean Kane  14:04
So Dr. Glosner, if I'm understanding correctly, you had somewhat of an educational role. But this other facet that is very unique compared to an MSL, is almost doing some research, right, some de identified research, correct, from a drug company standpoint, are you picking or is someone picking research projects related to products that that company has to make them used more effectively, more cost efficiently? Or what is kind of the driver from Pfizer or any drug company to want to fund that kind of a position and project?

Speaker 1  14:35
Yep, I think it's the commitment or partnership for us to help from a healthcare standpoint, often, I would say a majority were within disease states that Pfizer may have interests. And it's disease state more so than product. And so the thought was, you can select whatever. This isn't a quid pro quo of you do this. And it was you make the right decision from a product standpoint for you. And so it was disease state based. And. Was kind of helping them from a decision standpoint. And we actually went through training for Microsoft Access. That was a database that we would create. It was almost a dashboard that it created for the Hines VA was patients with diabetes, of the measures that you would need and help them to collect that via Access database. And so it's often a way to partner with them to help patients. And I work for Pfizer, you know. So there's always that bias, that perceived bias, and so I keep a good paper trail. So if they have questions as the validity of the data, I'm like, Please look at it and make sure that makes sense to you. And it really is more of a disease outcomes project. And actually had partnered with Midwestern students years ago, and they had a quality assurance class, and we would go to some of the different sites that one of the health systems had, and look at Joint Commission and heart failure requirements. Or did they hit the patients from? Are they on ACE inhibitors and things along those lines? Percent of patients that smoked, patients with diabetes that used a basics Diabetes Education Program, those centers that had CDs versus those that didn't, to see if there's difference in a one C's. So it was more from the standpoint of disease awareness. And then, to your point, Dr. Kane, it was really a disease state that Pfizer may have interest in. That's where it's evolved

Dr. Sean Kane  16:19
to, of course. And just to just to be clear, I wouldn't expect a drug company to do it completely with no interest to their own in mind, just trying to connect how that work. Would kind of feedback to almost justify the position from a drug company standpoint of why that's happening. That makes sense.

Dr. Khyati Patel  16:34
Yeah. And then fast forward, three years ago, you stepped into a different role called Field Medical Director at Pfizer, correct, and you mentioned your interest in cardiovascular, metabolic drugs and stuff. So how is this position different?

Speaker 1  16:49
Yeah, so it allowed me to be more of a specialist before as a generalist and as a generalist really covered many of the products that Pfizer had now as a specialist in the cardiovascular area, do stuff around anticoagulation agents, around GLP‑1, and it's really to help providers better understand some of those subpopulations from an anticoagulation standpoint. But the other piece is that research piece. My goal, that often say is, you hear of the mayo clinics and the Cleveland clinics of the world, my goal is to have Chicago be recognized in the same way. So how can research be brought to the Chicago land area? So Pfizer has a grant site that people can independently submit grants to. There's a way to look at independent educational programs. But there may be set research that Pfizer is looking for as well, that I can try and connect with some of these research folks as well. And we, I think, about a year ago, we were able to do like a pipeline presentation for the faculty at Rosalind Franklin, just that, so you can have an idea of where we're going from the standpoint of disease states and products that we're looking at as well. And so now it's as much research trying to connect with researchers as it is to educate on the depth of products that we have.

Dr. Sean Kane  17:58
So would you say, compared to other companies, that this is an MSL like role, or are there facets that are different?

Speaker 1  18:06
Yeah, I I would say it's similar to more of an MSL position from an education standpoint, and then that research piece. So I would say it, is it? Some of it depends on the mix of patients. I have a colleague that's, again, I've been with Pfizer for 28 years, so I know a couple people that have gotten other companies, and some may focus on payers. So they may be the Blue Cross, Blue Shields of the worlds, or the Uniteds of the world. So that may be their set, and they may have all the products, versus some may try and do research at Academic Center. So it really varies with MSLs, but the end of the day, you're trying to convey information to healthcare providers so they better understand the appropriate way to utilize the medication they may have, or better understand the disease states that are out there

Dr. Khyati Patel  18:49
and in your role, you know, for those who are potentially 1520, years down in their career, considering your position, explain what your day to day activity look like, obviously, you know one piece is you coming here and talking with us on this podcast, but what

Speaker 1  19:04
does it look like? It varies from day to day. And again, that's the nice, unique thing. And Dr. Ken had asked this before of why transitioning over at the VA, it was a set day I'd go and see patients. Every day varies. And so let me just think of yesterday. Yesterday, at 730 I went to Grand Rounds at Northwestern at a cardiovascular Grand Rounds, and it was reviewing kind of key things that were presented in American Heart Association that was at Philadelphia week before. So there's learnings that are involved there. Then I met with a clinical pharmacist on the south side of Chicago with a resident to have them better understand some of the sub populations and really address the role of real world data. I mean, that's the new topic that every pharmacist should have a better understanding of. Some will believe that it's not as good as randomized, controlled trial data, but it's here to stay, and so it's helping. Providers understand the role that real world data will play with patients. They're able to do it quicker, cheaper and larger. It's not as good as randomized, controlled trials, but it'll give us, as I say, a piece of the puzzle to help from a decision standpoint. So that was my day yesterday.

Dr. Khyati Patel  20:17
That's quite a variety. Yeah, correct. Yeah.

Speaker 1  20:20
And again, I focus on many of the academic centers, from University of Chicago to Loyola to rush to Northwestern as well as some of the IDNs, the integrated delivery networks like advocate, Aurora, atrium, Dooley, just really to connect with those providers and help better

Dr. Sean Kane  20:37
educate them. Kind of switching gears a little bit. You know, we've actually interviewed on this podcast an alumni of Rosalind Franklin that was a year or two into her, you know, post fellowship and now at a drug company. One thing that stood out to me about you, Dr. Glosner, was the amount of time that you've at the same company and industry. You said, 28 years at Pfizer. That's relatively uncommon. As far as I'm aware, for a pharmacist and industry to stay with the same company, especially to not merge and things like that. Can you give us a background? Is that true, that that's unusual? And then what is it about your career path that has kept you in the same spot for 28 years?

Speaker 1  21:16
Yeah, thanks. It's probably unusual. I started in Philadelphia, and I transitioned over the Chicagoland area, where I met my wife, who was also a pharmacist, and did the same job I did for Pfizer for about 18 years. So maybe that was the one that cemented me position wise, because my co worker was great to work with. We actually had moved to Connecticut and done training, so we did the educational training for 100 clinical pharmacists that were with Pfizer. So a way to imagine taking a pharmacist that maybe had worked at a hospital, long term care setting, and have them better understand how to work in industry, what the different disease states are. And that piece we talked about earlier, about communication, we go through the model that's used at West Point is situational leadership we go through disc is people like to receive information different style wise. So it's a Myers Briggs. So there's training to kind of help that person connect or become a better communicator, as well as disease state learning. So then I came to Chicago, and I really enjoy what I do, the opportunity to connect with healthcare providers, as well as the people I work with are fantastic. So I think it's it's twofold. I I certainly enjoy the position and what I do, and I really like the people that I work with. They we go through a tool called Strength Finders. And my number one is learner. Like, if you want to say I want to learn, to put a clear coat nail polish on. I'm willing to learn. There's nothing I would not want to learn about. And so this provides me an opportunity to continue to learn, just like Grand Rounds yesterday at Northwestern that opportunity to learn is something that's core of my fabric.

Dr. Khyati Patel  22:54
And like with your experience of all this years, you know you you've seen the world of pharmacy, not only just clinical, but the industry pharmacy evolved too. You gave great examples of how, you know, pharmacists and industries are trained now to grow in their roles, but what are some of the changes that you've seen when you first joined, compared to where things are now, as to some of our students, or, you know, pharmacists considering industry options?

Speaker 1  23:19
Yep, I think for us, the pandemic has probably thrown a little bit of a wrinkle in it, the opportunity to do telehealth or meeting patients remotely that may help some of those raw areas, like South Dakota, North Dakota, to connect with patients. In that facet, you're seeing a more empowered patient, from the standpoint of they're coming in and saying, I read this online, we saw that with the vaccinations, and where they're questioning getting it or not. I think the other piece is what we're seeing is what's called social determinants of health. Is it's not just take this medicine, because I say so, but it's a partnership shared decision making, and it's realizing there may be factors that may preclude a patient from taking the medication, socioeconomic, educationally, ethnicity, they may not have the opportunities that others may have. And the new term that the World Health Organization has is called the commercial determinants of health. Is, how is social media impacting what you do as a health care provider? From a prescriptive standpoint, Here, take this medicine. Why I read on my Twitter feed that it shouldn't be taken, you know, and that has an influence, or from a dietary standpoint, I see a commercial for McDonald's Big Mac, and I'm like, Man, that's what I should get, but that may not be what I should be eating, because, you know, I should have a salad. But it's difficult in some areas to find a salad, to find a salad affordably, and you see it on TV, so people may not be eating as well as they should, so

Dr. Sean Kane  24:43
kind of taking a microscope to what you said in terms of, you know, clinical pharmacy, pharmacy generally, has really changed over the last couple of decades. What about the role of the pharmacist and industry, specifically in terms of where you started in the mid 1990s to now? Now, are you seeing more pharmacists in industry? Are they having the same kinds of responsibilities? Their training is certainly different. You know, the PharmD really didn't become standard until after 2000 2001 how has that changed?

Speaker 1  25:14
Yep, I think the ideal position, or the ideal education for a pharmacist, gradually, the PharmD is getting that MBA, because you put the best of both worlds, because many companies have a marketing department and they make decisions around disease education, and they may not have the healthcare experience that a clinical pharmacist or a nurse or PA may have, and so it's always good. Or what you find clinical pharmacists in industry is that lens of that makes sense or it doesn't make sense. The also thing that you find is, in the late 80s, Lily was good at hiring only pharmacists as their sales representatives, and they were ahead of the curve with the thought of connecting with other healthcare providers. If I'm talking to a physician or a nurse or whoever, and they start talking about a chem seven or, you know, a lipid panel, I have an understanding what that is, some may not. And so you're able to transition, and that may afford you more time with that provider from a connection standpoint. And so that's where you see more and more clinical pharmacists or secondary providers going into industry, is because they're able to connect. And it's all about bandwidth. How can I get more time with that provider to answer questions that may have or educate them? So I think that's where you see the change in industry is more people coming in, more people that are have clinical pharmacy degrees, so they're able to connect with other healthcare providers.

Dr. Sean Kane  26:36
And are you seeing a higher uptake of pharmacists and industry in the last 10 years, let's say, or has it been fairly steady?

Speaker 1  26:44
I would say yes. A good example is University of Chicago. I think we have six on the medical side that are from the University of Chicago, pharmacy wise. And so that's probably within the last three to five years. And so I've seen more of an uptick in people interested in industry, and it may be from a burnout standpoint, of working in the trenches, being asked to do pharmacists are good at not saying no and and they're very competent in that position. So more and more things get thrust upon that competent person, and there's that burnout piece. And so maybe they're looking at, can I go and work somewhere else where it's not as taxing on me potentially,

Dr. Khyati Patel  27:22
and I love that you bring burnout, because that's wellness has been one piece for us, faculty as well as students and our listeners to probably a bigger topic since awareness, since the pandemic. But Dr. Glosner, in your opinion, like resiliency is probably one thing that we need to bring about. But what other characteristics are they looking for? Pharmacists wanting to work in industry.

Speaker 1  27:46
Couple examples, I guess communication would be one, right? So be able to communicate to convey, I could be the smartest person in the world, but if I can't convey those ideas to that person, you're back to square one. So the opportunity to orally, as well as in writing, communicate with someone. The second is to have tough skin. I'm one of eight kids, and so I've had somewhat tough skin. But you may have a lot of people that are saying, No, I don't have time for you. So it is being perseverant. The one skill that I say is being doggedly persistent, because someone saying no doesn't mean that's the closed door kind of, is there another person I could connect with to get this information to some way, somehow, those are probably two, and then probably the third is experience, right? So if I have a company that's looking for an oncology MSL, and I have a person that specialized in cardiology and one in oncology, that oncology person is gonna be a leg up, and so they're looking for that experience. So you have real world experience of, how do patients that have cancer go through the system, and how will this drug fit into that potentially into that environment. So that experience is another key piece as well.

Dr. Sean Kane  28:52
Kind of piggybacking on experience is kind of a running joke that especially when the job market was more difficult that many jobs outside of pharmacy even required, you know, entry level, but 10 years of experience right in industry, it sounds like experience is important, so that brand new graduate straight out of PharmD school probably is going to have a harder time of getting the job versus someone who has that experience with that oncology patient population. Generally speaking, what is the amount of time that you think is the sweet spot of enough experience that that person can function at a high level as an MSL or elsewhere within an organization and industry

Speaker 1  29:32
when we started. So this is back in 96 they wanted you to have five years of experience. And if you had a fellowship or residency, that was thought to be condensed time, and that would count as two or three years. And so I would think three to five gives you that window. And Dr. Kane, you touched on it. It's almost the chicken or the egg. To get a position, you have to have industry experience. But how do I get industry experience? You know? How can I get this position about industry experience? And so it's got to be that individual and doggedly persistent. So I need to, how do I separate myself from the other person? Is it PharmD degree that's no longer that's an equalizer. So is it another degree that I may look at? An MBA Pfizer has a great education assistance program. I was able to get a master's in public health a handful years ago. Maybe that's a differentiator. Is it board certification, the BCPS or one for ambulatory care, is it me publishing, connecting with a faculty, and doing an abstract or manuscript, and then how I come across? And so I think those are all ways of separating yourself, and don't even the small things are important. If I were to talk to a person, sending them a handwritten note separates me from the other person. You know, I get 1000s of emails, but if you write a handwritten note and say thank you for your time and hope the Steelers win the Super Bowl or something personal that you've connected with them, that's going to set you apart from someone else, and so your goal is to separate you from the person to your right and to your left.

Dr. Khyati Patel  30:58
Yeah, I think those are some good words and advice for our audience as well, and kind of focusing on you mentioned, like few years of experience is necessary. A lot of our students are now so focused towards industry careers, and maybe they know in their second year, third year, that that's where they're going. And then they do internships, they do their advanced I don't know, practice experiences in industry, and then hope to get a fellowship. Do you think that path would make them successful in getting an industry career, or do you think it's still more traditional to get that clinical experience, as you mentioned, and then kind of Route yourself into the industry career?

Speaker 1  31:37
And I think it depends on where they would want to go within the company. So if I want to do drug information, they may take people right out, right so you're Manning phones and doing some answering medical questions. Potentially, if I want to go and do marketing, go into Pfizer headquarters. They may take someone early in that space as well. Or that may be that fellowship that would allow me to transition in, because often those fellows are doing project with the marketing side or the medical side. If they're interested in bench top clinical research, Pfizer's research facility. Have one here in Lake Forest. There's one in Groton. There's the opportunity that, but that may be, PharmD is a stepping stone. They probably are looking for PhD folks in that space. If you're looking for field medical, then that's probably where that extra education would help you, because you're able to when you're talking to someone at Northwestern share experience that you had when you were treating patients

Dr. Khyati Patel  32:26
whenever, wherever. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 1  32:29
Another idea that I thought of as well was Dr. Ansara, someone Dr. Kane, and I know when asked similarly, why did he go over to industry and similar reason is we have the opportunity to affect larger populations, potentially, as opposed to working in a VA or one system. Now, I have the opportunity to maybe educate at Northwestern through a presentation multiple folks. And that reach may go to rush or some of these other places as well. And so it's the reach is another, I think, opportunity that we're able to provide from an industry standpoint.

Dr. Sean Kane  33:05
So kind of wrapping things up a little bit, I want to now focus on, kind of the future of industry, future of pharmacists in industry. If you had a crystal ball and you could see five to 10 years in the future in terms of, you know, how might things change from an industry standpoint, especially how pharmacists play a role in those changes. What are some things that you see coming down the pike that we should be aware of and maybe even be thinking about how we train our pharmacists and new graduates in terms of being prepared for that future?

Speaker 1  33:34
Yeah, thanks for the great question at the end. That's a tough one. So I think going forward, it's going to be patients having more of a role within healthcare. And so those social determinants of health, the commercial determinants of health, which are those two? How does that connect into with whatever is being recommended? That's going to be number one. We just did a manuscript looking at social determinants of health with advocate Aurora around atrial fibrillation, and looking at what characteristics are making patients not adherent to medication. So, so that piece, it's no longer, here's a drug for this disease state. Take it, and we'll be good to go. There are many other factors that are in that space. You're seeing more and more companies focus on oncology and specialty so some of those rare diseases, there's more and more products that are coming out in that space that's going to probably be another area, from a focus standpoint, if you know oncology, it's going to help you, from a leg up standpoint, with many other companies, because I can't think of a company that doesn't have an oncology arm. And then probably the communication piece, a way of becoming a better communicator, will allow you to connect with some of these individuals, wherever they may be.

Dr. Sean Kane  34:45
So kind of focusing on that second one these expensive drugs. So even gene therapy, we're talking really expensive medications. Of course, it's in the insurance company's best interest, the patient's best interest, everyone's best interest. Is to use these really expensive medications effectively, which means patient education. It means proper prescribing, proper monitoring. Is that one of the roles that you think that pharmacist is going to play to optimize the use of these really expensive medications, or are there other facets that pharmacists might play a role

Speaker 1  35:18
with that's that's the question that keeps me up, from the standpoint of, if you have a drug, and there's proposed gene drugs that may eliminate sickle cell anemia, for example, what would be the price tag for that drug? Have you give that to a 10 year old or a 12 year old that may extend their life significantly, and you're avoiding hospitalization, ER visits? Who's going to pay for that? That's the question that I'm looking forward to. What the answers are, and hopefully it'll be appropriate on both sides, because you want to incentivize innovation, so to have these products be available, but you also have to make them affordable, that patients can get. And you're 100% right. Gene therapy is a big piece at yesterday at the grand rounds at Northwestern I believe the FDA may be looking at almost a registry, a 14 year long registry, to see if there's other signals that gene therapy may be posing on patients. So there's other regulatory things that may be coming in place, not just hey, you got this gene and it knocked out, whatever, but are there other sequelae that may happen? And we need to follow us over a longitudinal area, the opportunity to be familiar with real world data is probably another huge one. Registries and ways of monitoring and slicing data is important as well realizing that I work for a company, and so if I give you real world data, there may be a perceived bias of like, yeah, you're going to directionally push me towards a product or disease state having the data be stand on its own merits. We always like to see studies that come out that are not industry funded, because it's thought that the fund that it's removes the bias, but they may not be good studies. So you want to be able to be a critical evaluator of real world data, whoever or wherever it comes from, and utilize that data to help from a patient outcome standpoint.

Dr. Sean Kane  37:03
So Dr. Glosner, it's you mentioned that because, literally, right before this HelixTalk episode recording, I gave a lecture in a class called deconstructing landmark clinical trials, which that was literally the message from today of the peer review process is only so good, even in big name, huge journals that you would expect to have a really robust peer review process, and at the end of the day, it's up to you as the healthcare provider to have that critical lens, to be able to evaluate a trial on its own merits without just relying on what's provided to you in that manuscript.

Speaker 1  37:34
Yeah, and even looking at that population, it may be the best study in the world. It may be in JAMA, but maybe it's not applicable to the patients that you see because 98% were Caucasian, or 98% were males, and you're living or you're working the South Side of Chicago, where there's more of a diverse patient population. So it's taking those studies with a grain of salt and seeing how that applies to patients that you have.

Dr. Khyati Patel  37:56
Well, Dr. Glosner, it's been great to have you and share your career path, and some wisdom along the way, but we're still going to ask you to share any parting wisdom you have, regardless of you know where they are in their career, what areas of career they're practicing in, what would you like to share?

Speaker 1  38:15
So what I would share is find your Mount Rushmore, find those people that will influence your lives and guide you from a mentorship standpoint, like I said, Dr. Steve Scott at Purdue started me on the right path, along with Dr. Nick Popovich, who's at UIC right now, has graduated. He was my mentor or my counselor, Bill Lynn, who was my resident director, and Bob Secor, who was the person that kind of pulled me into Pfizer, find your mentor to help kind of nudge you along in the right direction, and then how do you separate yourself from the person to your right or to your left?

Dr. Sean Kane  38:51
So Dr. Glosner, thank you so much for your time today. For the listener, if they have any questions about your career path or just want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Speaker 1  39:00
So two ways my email, which is scott.glossner@pfizer.com and Glosner is spelled G, l, o, s, n, e, r. And another area that people can reach out to me is I'm on LinkedIn as well. Scott at Scott glossner, perfect.

Dr. Sean Kane  39:16
Well, thank you again for your time. We'll have your contact information in the show notes as well. I think that wraps up today's episode quite nicely.

Dr. Khyati Patel  39:23
Yeah, thank you so much again for being with us. We really appreciate this, this journey, you bet. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. So with that, I'm Dr. Kane. I'm Dr. Patel, and as always, study hard.

Narrator - Dr. Abel  39:33
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Narrator - ?  39:44
to suggest an episode or contact us. We're online at HelixTalk.com thank you for listening to this episode of HelixTalk. This is an educational production copyright Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science.