Speaker 1 00:05 Lange, welcome to HelixTalk, a podcast presented by the Rosalind Franklin University College of Pharmacy. Narrator - Dr. Abel 00:11 This podcast is produced by pharmacy faculty to supplement study material and provide relevant drug and professional topics. Speaker 1 00:19 We're hoping that our real life clinical pearls and discussions will help you stay up to date and improve your pharmacy knowledge. Narrator - Dr. Abel 00:27 This is an educational production copyright Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science. Speaker 1 00:32 This podcast contains general information for educational purposes only. This is not professional advice and should not be used in lieu of obtaining advice from a qualified health care provider. Narrator - Dr. Abel 00:47 And now on to the show. Speaker 2 00:51 Welcome to HelixTalk. Episode 14. I'm your co host, Dr. Kane. Unknown Speaker 00:55 I'm Dr. Patel, and I'm Dr. lavorsi. Dr. Sean Kane 00:57 And today we have a very special podcast where we're talking about mid year, which, as I understand, is December of this year and December of every year. Speaker 3 01:05 That is true, and I actually want to take time and introduce Dr. Lavorsi. See, this is our first time joining our podcast team, and she'll be doing so at her leisure too. So welcome, Dr. Lavorsi. Thank you Dr. Sean Kane 01:16 very much. The reason that we're talking about mid year is because residency has become a very hot topic amongst p3 and p4 students in terms of what they want to do when they grow up, whether residency is important. And kind of the first step in doing that is to consider going to mid year or to not go to mid year, and kind of weigh the risks and benefits, if you will, of making that Speaker 3 01:37 transition definitely. And we do have a lot of students who come and ask when they're in their third year, in the fourth year is that, should I consider residency? Is first question, and that should be answered by the students themselves. Nowadays we recommend, because of the competitive market out there, yes, they should consider one of these options. But the big question for them is, should I go to the mid year or not? And there are a lot of factors that go into it, such as cost time, time off of the rotation, other family obligation, as we know, mid year traditionally always falls around the holiday. And so if our students, who are family members, and, you know, have extended family and whatnot, they get busy around the holiday time too. So all these factors kind of play a role as well. So Dr. Lavorsi, what has been your kind of go to answer when students ask you this question, I Speaker 4 02:22 think a lot of it has to do with what programs you're thinking of applying to. If you're thinking of staying local, maybe going to the local meeting and getting your your questions answered there, if you're thinking of applying maybe elsewhere, or if you want to see what else is out there and actually speaking to these programs, then I would recommend going personally for myself, originally, I was thinking of staying with Illinois programs, and I wasn't able to attend a local meeting, so I decided to go to mid year. While I was there, I started researching more of the other programs, and I actually ended up doing a residency in Madison, Wisconsin, and I absolutely loved it. So it really opened up my horizons, and it was really nice to be able to talk to these different programs and actually kind of figure out even more what I'm looking for specifically. Dr. Sean Kane 03:03 And I think that's important to think about. You're kind of saving the plane ticket to four different places by going to mid year, one place to be able to talk to programs all over the country, and you never know. You might find a program that is exactly what you want that you didn't even know about until you saw them at mid year. So from my point of view, one of the biggest reasons to go to mid year is to avoid potentially interviewing at places that had you talked to them at mid year, you would not have bought the plane flight to go to San Francisco or some other city. You can avoid that if you can talk to all the programs in one spot with one plane ticket instead, absolutely. Speaker 3 03:36 And you know, there are some students, they go to different institution in a different state to do their pharmacy program, but they want to eventually end up being in their home state. And so if that is the case, they can't go to the local meetings. They have to go to the mid year and, you know, find out the programs that are going to be in the state of their choice of residency. Dr. Sean Kane 03:55 So let's kind of back up a little bit. So what is the purpose of mid year for the candidate? What is the purpose of mid year for the programs in terms of, why are they going to mid year in the first place? Speaker 4 04:05 So definitely, for the candidates, it's you're going to learn about different programs. So it's more about you being able to ask the programs different questions, get your answers. And for the programs, it's more so seeing what kind of candidates are out there, what will be the changes that they might see for their program in the year ahead. Dr. Sean Kane 04:22 And I want to emphasize one thing that I think is a misconception among students, if they don't go to mid year, does that mean that they just won't be able to get into that program? Speaker 3 04:31 And I don't think that is quite the case. Give you my example, too. You know, when I was going through school and APPE rotations, I was told that if you don't have an APPE rotation, but so and so institutions, they're not going to consider you. Turns out that, you know, I didn't have any rotation with the institution I completed my residency with, and so it's, it's, you don't absolutely have to consider that. Dr. Sean Kane 04:54 Fact, I think it's one of those things where, you know, these programs are going to see, literally, probably. Be 100 or more candidates that go through that ask a few questions, and generally, unless you stand out in a really good way or really bad way, the programs honestly, probably won't remember whether you were at mid year or not. And in my opinion, sometimes you get extra points if you don't go to mid year, contact the program director on your own, say, I'm really interested. Maybe I can have a phone call, or I have a few very basic questions that are really important to me. I think that sometimes that might even be a better approach to get the program to notice you. Speaker 3 05:28 Yeah, and if you're going to be in that area of the residency program you're interested in, you know, on the fly or on a travel, reach out to the residency director and say that if you know whether you can stop by or not, you know, just to kind of discuss a few questions, visit their institution or whatnot, that is absolutely also done. Dr. Sean Kane 05:47 So with that said, I know that there is one thing called PPS, and I know that this is kind of a way that programs can interview PGY one and PGY two candidates, and even job candidates. Is this a way that you might be able to get your foot in the door that is different than what mid year is Speaker 3 06:01 So PPS stands for Personal Placement Service. And from my experiences, I know a lot of the employers, meaning the institutions who are looking to hire PGY2, meaning advanced residents or fellows, meaning the industry type of one- to two-year fellowships, they are the ones who would have booths in PPS, and they will be doing interviews and whatnot. Most of the PGY1 programs are part of the regular residency showcase anything different than what I just said. Dr. Lavorsi, Speaker 4 06:33 no, I completely agree with you. I personally did not do the PPS process. But that sounds about right from what I've heard from others who have Speaker 3 06:40 one thing we do want to notice is that PPS is a separate registration than the mid year registration, so you have to consider that cost too. And unfortunately, unless you register for PPS, you cannot find the program listed as to who is actually there. So that's one of the disadvantages. Dr. Sean Kane 06:58 So now I have a better idea of what mid year is, in terms of what the candidates should expect. Do you guys have any tips in terms of how to get the most out of mid year and potentially not stand out in a negative way? Speaker 4 07:09 So one thing to keep in mind is it's two days of the program setting up a booth, but each program is only there for a couple hours, so either for a morning session or an afternoon session. So definitely looking ahead, looking at all the programs that you're interested in, kind of mapping it out, where are they going to be, what what day they're going to be there? And just really take a look at all of their websites. See what information is out there. See what else you want to find out about these programs. Get to know the residents that are there and see if you actually fit in. So, you know, it's great to get your questions answered, but also see if you're a good fit for that program yourself, because that you know you're going to be in that program for a year or two, and you really want to make sure that you fit in well with them. Speaker 3 07:48 Yeah, and talking about questions, you know you're going to do your homework. You know, before you even go to the mid year and going to look at the institutional web page for this residency program find out exactly what's happening. You are there to ask questions that are not already available to you. So you want to find out what's the day to day life like for those residents. You know, if the residents will like to do a residency again, would they choose the same program again? So these are the kind of questions that you want to be asking. And like Dr. Lavorsi said, you know you were there to get to not just know the program description, but you're there to get to know the residents, whether they're happy they're in the program or not. You're there to get to know, hopefully, if you get to talk to the residency director, to see maybe if that personality is something that you would get along with for the rest you know, one year or two, depending on if you go for PGY1. Dr. Sean Kane 08:37 Just keep in mind, the whole point of you going is to have an idea of whether this is a good fit for you. So you're not going to impress anyone by asking a really dramatic question. You'll probably just stand out in a negative way. So the purpose of this is to ascertain whether this is a program that you would enjoy going to or not. And if that means asking the residents about, you know, what is life outside of the residency like? That's great. If it's more about what has been the most surprising thing, or what is something that you hadn't expected. Great, but you probably shouldn't be asking things that are on their brochure and things that are on their website that are very obvious. Speaker 3 09:10 And from experience, I know that students are very diligent in doing their homework, meaning they'll go to the ASHP website and jot down the list of programs that they are available, then they'll compare that, once the schedule is available, as to what the floor plan is like, and they'll mark down the booths, and you know, they will allocate certain number of minutes per, you know, each program that they want to talk to. And so you have to kind of master this navigation, because, like Dr. levers, you said there are programs. There are two different days of showcase, but the programs are only there for either of those days, not both the days, so you don't pretty much have the whole time there either. Speaker 4 09:47 And one thing I would recommend, after you've been seeing, you know, 1520 programs, they might kind of all start to merge into one. So what I personally did is, after I talked to one particular program, I would step aside and jot down a few. Know, it's something that I would remember about the program, and what were my first impressions, and that really helped me long term. And at the end of the day, I put it all into a spreadsheet, just to kind of keep track of everything, because they will all merge together. Unknown Speaker 10:13 That's a really good recommendation. This Dr. Sean Kane 10:15 should go without saying, but this is a professional meeting, so that means that everyone should be dressed professionally, as if they're going to an interview, in terms of suit and tie or the equivalent for whatever the ladies would wear. But this is not something where you're kind of showing up in casual wear, absolutely. Speaker 3 10:32 So the business casual even is kind of frowned upon. You have to have a nice formal wear for girls. It would be a skirt suit or a pantsuit, and then for guys, as Dr. Kane said it would be a regular suit. Keep this in mind, whether you are at showcase, whether you are doing some social event while you are at the mid year, or even flying. You want to make sure your retire is appropriate, because the entire time, starting from leaving the airport from your city until you leave to come back and come to your home, you're pretty much being interviewed, because you never know who's sitting next to you on the flight. Or, let's say, if you go to Anaheim, which is this year's mid year meeting, and you go to Disneyland over there, even your informal clothing should also be appropriate, because you never know who you would be interacting Dr. Sean Kane 11:23 with, even going beyond clothing, I've heard plenty of stories of how people act is also very important. So I've heard stories of P fours that were hitting on preceptors at the sites that they were interested in at a bar, things like that. Generally, you should probably make sure that you're acting appropriately as if your future employer was in the room with you, at least in public areas where you don't really know everyone who's there. This is a big meeting. A ton of people go your chances of the very small world of pharmacy kind of being all around you are very, very high. Speaker 4 11:55 And one last thing to keep in mind for the ladies is, don't wear your four inch heels, because the floor plan is very large. You're going to be walking a ton. You're going to be standing a ton. So wear comfortable shoes so that you're not focusing on your feet and you're focusing on learning about the programs. And we have heard horror stories of people taking off their shoes and speaking to program directors, so try to avoid that as well. Dr. Sean Kane 12:18 So Dr. Patel, help me understand what the typical timeline is in terms of going to mid year, to applying to interviews, to getting an interview spot, to actually finally getting the residency position that you've always wanted. Speaker 3 12:31 And timing is of an essence when it comes to application process, not only so that you don't miss any deadlines, but it's also frowned upon if you miss any deadline, the program would look at it as that you're not a you know, you don't have time management skills or organization skills, and you cannot meet deadlines. So ASHP website actually offers a really comprehensive residency checklist. It actually starts from the month of September, and coming around with the month of September, you know, you should know by this time you want to do a residency or not. And those who are interested in doing residency, start drafting your CVs. You know, most of you, especially resident Franklin students, have at least completed but two or three AP, P experiences. So start listing those down. Start identifying the people that you're going to go and ask reference letters for too. And we'll talk about who you should consider for item of reference as well. Start drafting those cover letters, you know, if not institution specific, but have a format ready to go. And if your local pharmacy organizations are doing a local showcase and you can attend, and top of attending the mid year, go ahead and check those out as well. So actually, month of October, then gets a little bit busier too. We're talking about looking at the most updated list of residencies on the shp website. Make sure you go ahead and register for the mid year meeting. Make sure you start collecting your wardrobe. As we said, you want to look very professional and presentable. You want to also think about whether you're going to do PPS or not, and then whether you want to register for that now or not. Start booking your flights and hotels, because as the time come close, because it's a holiday season, they get a little bit expensive as well. And start registering for forecast in match. From what I know, this year's forecast cycle is supposed to start either late October or early November. But I'm sure you will find out from your colleagues too, who are pretty much checking the site every single day to find out when it will be open, and then month of November, it's just one month before you attend your mid year. So here's the time you want to finalize our CVs. Make sure there are error proofs. Type of proofs. Start making your cover letters a little bit more specific to the programs you are going to visit don't complete them, because you will still be finding more information when you go and talk to these programs at the mid year too. So which can also, you know, possibly go on those cover letters as well, tell your school register that you know you want the transcript to be sent to forecast. Now, forecast is actually a centralized. Application system that was recently launched. I think it's going on for about two years, if I'm not wrong. And so last year, what we used was forecast 2.0 there might be some updates, hopefully for the good for the upcoming year. Dr. Sean Kane 15:12 So Dr. lavorsi, would you recommend that a student comes with multiple copies of their CV to mid year or because they're submitting it to forecast? Is that sufficient or kind of what has been your experience? What do you recommend for students? Speaker 4 15:25 So when I was a student, I was told to bring maybe about four copies of your CV, because a lot of programs won't ask for it, but it's always good to have it in case you meet someone who is requesting it. And actually, when I was at the mid year meeting, I've had two residency directors asked for my CV, so it was a good thing that I had it and I had it printed on professional paper. The other thing too, some people, some people ask, is whether or not to have business cards with them. I personally had them with me as well. And being a resident at the mid year meeting, there were a lot of students who did have their business cards and handed them to us. And sometimes we remembered them and sometimes we didn't. I've heard from other programs that sometimes they have two piles for their business cards, those who gave him a good impression, those who didn't give him a good impression. So I think things can go either way, depending on the program, but I would recommend bringing a few copies of your CV. Dr. Sean Kane 16:17 So at least from my point of view, I'd probably recommend that you just have a few copies if they request it, but I would not offer it to anyone unless they specifically request for you to give them the CPU or a business card. Definitely, I agree with that. Speaker 3 16:30 So we talked about everything up until what happens, you know, before you start going to mid year, which is in December. So then, what are some of the things that we need to consider during our students need to consider during the month of December, Speaker 4 16:42 so definitely in December, after you attend the mid year meeting, definitely sending out thank you cards to the residency directors that you may have spoken to. If you didn't speak to the resident residency director, you can also send out a thank you card saying that you had the privilege to speak to the some of the residents and you're still interested in the program. Definitely sending out thank you cards to all the residents that you spoke to. It's always very nice, and it kind of reminds us of the student that we spoke Dr. Sean Kane 17:08 to, Dr. lavoroso. You said, Thank You card. Does that mean an actual physical card, or is an email sufficient? Or where do you fall? Because I know this is a controversial issue amongst privacy world. Speaker 4 17:19 It is. I prefer cards personally, because I think we're starting to get a little bit too comfortable with emails, and I think receiving a card is an extra personal touch to it. It shows that you put a little bit more effort into it than just a simple email. So that's what I would personally prefer. Dr. Sean Kane 17:36 I would second that for me, I think that a card is reasonable the one argument some do have for an email is that there's a paper trail that's searchable and things like that. Regardless of the route you do take, if you choose to do an email, you better write it as a professional letter, though, you know capital letters, proper grammar, proper spelling, all of those things are incredibly important. Just because it's an email doesn't mean that you can kind of slack off on the the etiquette of a normal letter Speaker 3 18:04 unless you have matched with that program you're always being interviewed. Just remember that definitely. Speaker 4 18:10 And then in regards to in December, just making sure you're requesting the letters of recommendations and making sure that they're going through the forecast submission, hopefully by this point, you've already talked to your letters of recommendation writers, so they shouldn't be surprised that you're asking them all of a sudden to submit a letter of recommendation within two weeks or so. Speaker 3 18:30 And I would highly recommend following up with the letter writers sooner than later, because come time the mid year, they get not only your request, but 15 other students request, and I've noticed by experience too, there are some, you know, popular faculty. They have a cap that you know, these are the only letters they provide. And if you were one of the students who did not reach them in time, they might deny you, too. So who would you go and ask for reference of letters? Dr. Sean Kane 18:57 From my experience, I think that the strongest letters are going to be happy sites where you've been there for four to six weeks and you really got to know the preceptor well, and that you feel like that they would be a good advocate for you in terms of describing your abilities and describing your desire to seek residency. I think it's really important to seek someone who knows who you are, as opposed to someone who might just look good on paper because of their name or because you did a rotation with them, but maybe you didn't see them that often. I don't think that that would make a good letter writer. Speaker 3 19:26 Would it matter if the letter is from a clinical APPE supervisor versus a non-clinical APPE supervisor? Speaker 4 19:34 I would say it's probably better to have a clinical one, just because they can attest to your clinical competence and how you are with patients and other providers, which is what you'll be doing in residency. If, for some unfortunate reason, you haven't had those rotations yet, then you have to think creatively. What kind of aspects of that rotation will be used, maybe towards your residency, and what can they attest to. You can also reach out to work supervisor. Ers, I know some students definitely work, you know, at community pharmacies or work in the hospital setting. And even though it's not a rotation and you're not being challenged as much as you would on a rotation, I think those people can still attest to your skills and kind of how you are as a person. Speaker 3 20:16 And one of the other recommendation that I need is to reach out to your faculty, perhaps your faculty advisors, if you have, you know, kept in touch with them or any other faculty that you have worked through throughout, you know, during your student leadership, organizational activities and things like that. Dr. Sean Kane 20:32 This probably goes without saying, but if you know a faculty member did a residency or used to work at a given institution that you're applying to, generally, that's a good person to seek out for a specific letter for a specific institution, because people reading that recommendation letter should know whoever that person is, and that carries a lot more weight. Speaker 4 20:51 Pharmacy is a small world. So sometimes you know they might know that person, or they might reach out to that person and ask a little bit more information. The other thing to keep in mind too, as we go through it, this is keeping in mind the application deadlines. So always gearing everything towards the earliest deadline. So if one of them is 10 days before the rest of them make everything due for that very early application deadline. Dr. Sean Kane 21:15 So one common question I get is, How many programs should I apply to, given that one out of every three candidates will not match, and in terms of increasing the probability of matching, it would make sense to apply to more interview to more and potentially match more. Speaker 3 21:28 And so I do have some recent data available from the 2014 match cycle or the residency cycle, and actually it says about 5000 applicants applied for PG environment programs. And out of those 5000 applicants, there are about 55,000 applications. So on average, you're looking at about nine to 10 application per applicant. Not all these applicants entered into the ranking, meaning they did not agree to pursue the residency thereafter. But still, the number of applications are increasing day by day. Dr. Sean Kane 22:03 Keep in mind, again, that it's really a two step process. So it's you're applying to these programs. Let's say you apply to 10. You may only get an interview at a portion of those, and then of that portion, only some of those may rank you. So again, the thought of maybe starting with the bigger number of programs that you're willing to go to, or at least interview there, and then narrowing that down in terms of who you're willing to match Absolutely. So let's say that all of our astute listeners have gone through the entire process of getting recommendation letters. Have done the application process. What happens after kind of the deadlines in late December or very early January? Speaker 3 22:38 One thing I do want to make sure that you forecast has a deadline date, you know, but do not wait until the midnight of your deadline, because a lot of the times the server gets overwhelmed because most of the other students are doing the same. So I would say, do a deadline a week before than the actual deadline. So if something goes wrong, you know, you can't find this document or that document, you still have few days to find it and submit it on time. So end of December should be your goal to, you know, maybe even earlier, should be your goal to complete all the application and submit it on forecast. Speaker 4 23:13 Then after the application is submitted, then you wait, and then you'll be asked for interviews. So on site interviews make sure that if you're on rotations, definitely being upfront with your preceptors and letting them know that you applied for a residency, you'll probably have some interview dates. And to make sure that you understand what the rules are for taking days off and if there's anything to make up, make sure you're clear with your preceptor about that. So you'll get these on site interviews. Make sure you schedule them. They'll often send you a list of days to choose from. And then at that point, just figuring out what you're going to do for transportation, where you're going to stay, kind of the nitty gritty details that go with interviews. Dr. Sean Kane 23:51 And then after that, once you've done all of your interviews, and the ranking process starts, where you rank the programs that you're willing to go to. Don't ever rank a program that you're not willing to go to. And then the programs also rank the candidates that they've interviewed, and they will not rank anyone that they don't want to go to their program. Absolutely. Speaker 3 24:09 And here is what I where I want to talk about match a little bit. So forecast we mentioned is a centralized application system what match has done now. And this is the website for match that also do residency matching for medicine and other healthcare professional as well. So forecast and match has merged. So as soon as you upload your demographic information on forecasts and you register for forecast, you also get registered for match, and then you get something called NMS code, which you would use to rank this program. So once your application is done, match gets updated that you know you've done the application. So know the fact, like Dr. Kane mentioned over here, when you rank the programs, you are entering into a very binding, a formal binding agreement. So again, you know, even at that point, if you think that you do not want to pursue residency and. In some cases it does happen because the employer comes around, your current employer would come around and say, Hey, we can't offer you a position, and that might change your mind too. So just be careful not to enter into the agreement unless you're completely committed to it. So once you're done with your interviews and stuff. You know, go ahead and start ranking the program. Last year's rank NMS website opened up somewhere in late February, and then the rank was due somewhere early March this year in the relic system on the NMS website, you will be ranking the programs by the deadline of March 6. Again, the ranking does not happen on that dual portal, the dual forecast and match portal. It happens on the match portal only. So you're going to use that code that's given to you by the match website, and you're going to go there and rank the programs by March 6, but then end of March is somewhere the rank the match results are always out. Usually it's around where the medicine residency results are out to match, results are out as well. What happens after match? So what if you know, prospective resident did not match with the program they wanted? What happens then? Dr. Sean Kane 26:15 That's actually a fairly common thing. So last year, with match, about two thirds of candidates did match to a program, whereas 1/3 did not match. And you know, those statistics have been getting worse for the candidate over the past decade. Speaker 4 26:28 So in case that is, you know, unfortunately, that does happen. So if you're one of those candidates, what happens next is called a scramble. So there's a list of programs who did not match, maybe all their positions, or some of their positions, and this list goes out, and then the candidates are able to contact these programs and reach out to see if they would be able to interview with them. Sometimes the interviews are in person, sometimes they're over the phone. Be prepared to be flexible during this process as well. Speaker 3 26:57 And this is a very hectic process, and I think the name that's given to the process is very appropriate. They call it the scramble, and it's literally the scramble, because it's first come first serve when it comes to those interviews, as well as the spots of the residencies, too. Speaker 5 27:12 And one thing I know I advocate for is having some sort of mentor or some faculty member, somebody you know, that can maybe help you navigate through some of them. I know the timing is limited, but somebody who may be able to reach out, because I know a lot of it ends up being cold calls or emails to the program. And so having that ability to have somebody like that that can help you navigate it, I think, because it can be so chaotic, so that somebody that can know the ins and outs, and can select, you know, out of those 20 or 30 programs that have been opening, which may meet, you know, given your previous experiences, which may match with what your expectations are. And so it can make it a little bit easier to narrow it down. The same thing, I think, as I make the same recommendation for anyone as you're navigating through it initially, that you have a mentor that can guide you, so that just goes double for the situation. Dr. Sean Kane 27:56 So hopefully people who are candidates are interested matching, find a program. What kind of happens after that? Once the dust has settled, they've identified a program that they will be going to in the summer. What happens after that? Speaker 4 28:09 Well, that point, usually the program director will reach out to saying, congratulations, this is our next step. This is what we'll be doing. There's any paperwork to fill out, you'll fill out that paperwork, and the next thing is getting ready for the board scheduling your board exam, studying for the board exam, taking it at an appropriate time, so that, depending on the state that you're in, sometimes it takes longer for you to get your results. So you don't want to be, you know, in a residency program waiting for three months to be able to do anything legally. So I would recommend taking the board exams Earlier in June. So that way, you know, by the time residency comes around, you're ready to kind of dive right into it. Speaker 3 28:46 I think that's a really good recommendation. Sometimes we think that, you know, we don't have to think about it until after the match, but we need to have our, all our docs line up in a row. And most of the residency program, you know, depending on one year or two year, will start from July 1 of July goes until up until end of June. So that's a 12 month program in any given case. Dr. Sean Kane 29:06 So in summary, one tip that I want to emphasize is that you should be professional at all times at mid year. So that means watch how much you drink, watch how you're acting and dressing and interacting with people, because you never know when your future residency preceptor or directors around the corner, Speaker 5 29:24 and I want again to once again, bring up the idea about having a mentor or someone to help you navigate through those waters, who can know where maybe the rough areas are, where the programs that may be best suited to you, so somebody who knows where you've been, what kind of program you've been at, and they can match you with something either you know during the initial process of interviewing, as well as doing the scramble, who can guide you to maybe the best fit for you. Speaker 3 29:45 The tip I want to really stress on is do your homework. Do your homework starting now. Do your homework before going to the residency program. Do your homework before going to the interviews, and then do your homework even before submitting the rank. So it's all about doing. Homework, lot of research, making sure you're making a nice list of deadlines and programs like Dr. devorsi mentioned, you know, write everything down after you talk to the residency program. So organization skills here and time management skills are going to come to a great rescue. Speaker 4 30:16 And then my last tip would just be to focus on what's right for you. So what are you looking for? Which program is going to, you know, be the best fit for you? Kind of like Dr. Schuman said, just really, just focus on what your goals are, and which program will be able to, kind of provide the experiences for your goals. Speaker 3 30:34 You're in a big environment, and there are a lot of there's a lot of peer pressure. You sometimes want to follow where your, you know, colleagues or friends are going, but you are there to find out what's best for Dr. Sean Kane 30:44 you. With that, I'm going to sign off. I'm Dr. Kane, Unknown Speaker 30:47 I'm Dr. Schuman, I'm Speaker 3 30:48 Dr. Patel, and I'm Dr. lavorsi. And as always, study hard as well as good luck. Narrator - Dr. Abel 30:55 Thank you for listening to this episode of HelixTalk. For more information about the show, please visit us at HelixTalk.com you.